Nanoparticles and the New Future of Regenerative Aesthetics

Dr. Grant Stevens

Hello everyone and welcome back to the Technology of Beauty where I have the opportunity to interview the movers and shakers of the beauty business. And today is no exception. You're gonna learn all about exosomes and the company Benev. And we have Ethan, who's here, who's come in from Korea. You heard me right?

He just flew in from Korea to be on this program and Dr. Jin who came up from Temecula down in Orange County. Welcome gentlemen. Thank you so much. Thank you. Have us. You may recognize Ethan. He was on a very brief show and at the American Brazilian Aesthetic Medicine or ABAM meeting in Park City this last February and I asked him to come back with Dr. Jin because I was so intrigued by this whole concept of exosomes. But first, I'd like you to know the, these fine gentlemen. Ethan, tell us a little bit about yourself. Where'd you grow up? Where'd you go to school? All right,

Ethan Min

First of all, thank you so much for having us today.

It's an honor to be part of this. Oh, it's my pleasure. And then I really enjoyed it first talking, and again, I really wanted to come back. So thank you so much. I grew up in Korea. I basically was raised there all day up until 1996 and then again, obviously for school options. And I left Korea and then again travel around the world, backpacking, and then again decided to come to us to.

Okay. So that's how I ended up in US and I finished my undergrad private college in Chicago, in Moody in 2000 five. And then I moved out to California. Okay. And then I did my MBA here in State College. Cal State Bulletins, and I'm gonna finished my finance as mba. And then I joined the company in 2006 to Benev.

And then again, obviously I've been. Since with the company and then I've obviously, I did my MBA during my work full-time work here at Benev. So it's...

Dr. Grant Stevens

So you've been at Benev that long? Okay. I didn't realize that.

Ethan Min

So I started as the just customer service representative, calling doctor's offices to introducing our product.

Back then it was still medical aesthetic field and then stayed. And then again, I've traveled around the world obviously as international sales directors establishing our product line and selling our products in to 16 different countries. And then again I decided to come back here and then again Start, leading a company as general manager president.

And then again, five years ago I became the CEO of the company.

Dr. Grant Stevens

Wow. So that's very impressive . So you know all the different positions in your company. Yes. And now you're the ceo? Yes. How about you, Dr. Jin? Where'd you grow up?

Dr. Richard Jin

Born and raised in Orange County. I did my undergrad at UC Irvine, did my medical school, my MD PhD at on the East coast Boston University in Brigham Women's.

My PhD work was molecular medicine or translational medicine, so that's my background or expertise. Taking something conceptually, doing research in vitro on the bench top, and then translating it into therapeutics. So I graduated undergrad in 2001, graduated medical school in 2013.

I came back out here to do internal medicine residency at UC Irvine again. Okay. And here we are today.

Dr. Grant Stevens

Are you practicing medicine now?

Dr. Richard Jin

I am practicing medicine. Internal medicine.

Dr. Grant Stevens

Okay. In Orange County. And what's your role with Benev?

Dr. Richard Jin

So I actually started working with Benev a couple years before Ethan did.

So in 2002, I actually headed their, their biotech sector. And then it translate into more of a medical aesthetics, growth factors wound healing, et cetera, et cetera. And that's where we are today.

Dr. Grant Stevens

So you're doing both, you're practicing clinical medicine as an internist, correct?

Dr. Richard Jin

Yeah. So I. As an internist I use that as my background. I have patients that I see, but it's generally regenerative aesthetics. Oh, I see. As I practice.

Dr. Grant Stevens

So does, do you measure things, hormones and so forth and give supplements to people like that I hear about. I have some friends that were anesthesiologists and now they're doing like testosterone pellets and all kinds of thing, growth factors and...

Dr. Richard Jin

yeah, I leave that to others to do.

I focus more on big picture stuff and as of late, exosomes have been the hot topic. Yes. So that's just we've just been building off of our experience. Go again going back almost 20 years ago, being the quiet movers and shakers behind the growth factory industry and medical aesthetics.

Yeah. To now being thrown into the forefront of being the kind of the leaders in terms of exosomes, exosome technology. And the application of that to medical aesthetics.

Dr. Grant Stevens

So let's start with the number one question I'm asked. What are exosomes?

Ethan Min

Why are you asking that question? You already know the answer to that , but it'd interesting to hear from both of us. Cause again ...

Dr. Grant Stevens

I want hear both say, I'm gonna ask you from a different point of scientist versus physician and scientist. And I was just asked out there today what. We'll start with just from 40,000 feet. What are exosomes?

Dr. Richard Jin

Yeah so exosomes are naturally secreted nanoparticles that are secreted by proliferating cells, and they contain genetic material that contain growth factors, that contain all these other things that really help mediate cell to cell communication.

Dr. Grant Stevens

Okay. And where do they live? Are they and are they naturally occurring?

Dr. Richard Jin

Oh, yeah. They're naturally occurring. They're naturally occurring by pretty much almost every cell in our body. And so everyone has exosomes. Everyone has exosomes. So if we were to get a blood sample from you or anyone else in this room, I could extract out exosomes from you and profile it.

Ethan Min

Yeah, definitely.

Dr. Grant Stevens

What does it mean to profile an exosome?

Dr. Richard Jin

Okay, so it means to really delve into. , what are these exosomes made of or what do they possess? Because I think the big question here is what are exosomes, but how do we use them in what we're trying to do? More specifically, we're talking about medical aesthetics and we're talking about beauty and how to make us appear younger and feel younger, right?

And so we talk wrinkles, and how do we get rid of wrinkles? How do we get rid of age spots, et cetera, et cetera. So what factors are present in these exosomes that help contribute or help modulate these processes? So in terms of profiling, I guess that's a general term that I'm using, but it's really delving into what are your exosomes have, right?

And you can just, you can list all these different things or you can measure all these different things in our exosome. And be able to profile it and categorize it, so to speak.

Dr. Grant Stevens

So can exosomes be made in a test tube? Are they, can they be made synthetically or are they always biologic?

Dr. Richard Jin

They're biologic.

Dr. Grant Stevens

Okay. And are your exosomes the same as my exosomes?

Dr. Richard Jin

Are they the same, are they similar or Yes. Can they be exactly the same? Probably not. We all have a different signature footprint, so they're slightly different.

Dr. Grant Stevens

Okay. Now turning to the CEO, what are Exosomes?

Ethan Min

You should asked me first, not fair, cause the scientist has answered that,

Dr. Grant Stevens

but from your point of view.

Ethan Min

Yeah for me, obviously exosome is a, again, bilipid membrane that are secreted by proliferate cells that has — again, this is my sales pitch.

Dr. Grant Stevens

Yeah, that's fine. I want to hear it.

Ethan Min

Anti-inflammatory and then again, the extra regenerative aspect with the do remodeling function as well as the skin barrier. function recovery. So these are three, three top function of exosome that I learned when I saw it. This would be great product for a post-care right in in, in a regenerative aesthetic field that we have. Okay. So that's would be really a definition that I have, and I think it's one stepfather developed from the concept of the growth sectors that we know.

In the past because it really elevates the concept where growth factor was a still very functional and used for the same reason. But exosome is more of a package right as a one particle, right with the spears that contains growth vectors, interleukin. All these micro RNAs that now the communication method of growth factor will be more of a single text messages.

Exosomes will be more like a virtual communication, virtual, like we're communicating more in total messages. And I get, I think that's where the power of exosomes lies and , it's more complete messages that your cell will need when they going through the recovery or to the regeneration. So that's when I saw, after coming from a, a company that manufacture growth, tructure product for a long time, this will be our holy grail moving forward.

This will be a future. And that's when I went to Dr. Richard Jin, I think it was like six years ago. We should evolve and move up, right? Starting exosome versus. Existing growth vector business that we have. And then again, it was no longer sexy cuz again it became a commodity with an industry where we have about 20 growth vectors, product lines in the industry now within medical aesthetics, which we were part of at least six or seven different companies as well as far as a manufacturer.

Okay. So we wanted something new. I was looking for a more sexier, a better story with the science and exosomes is a perfect approach and a transition from us being a growth factor experts into something that are also related to the growth vectors. That, but it's evolve and something better.

And are exosomes always put on topically?

Yes. It's with our current products. It's a topical skincare as a category

Dr. Grant Stevens

Okay. So we're not eating them, we're not injecting them either IV or IM, or subq? No. We're It's a topical application Yes. Of these exos? Yes. And you say postprocedure, do you mean post laser? When you, could you elaborate on what you mean by postprocedure?

Ethan Min

Yeah. We're in a medical aesthetic industry right now, and then again, there are. Two dozens of the very good skincare line products in the industry that basically come up with a product that are to be sold to the patients. So when they walk out of the office, With the procedure done, whether that is lasers or rf, or ultrasounds or RF, microneedling or chemical peels, right?

All that is to create control damages, not damaged, but control damages by the professionals, right? With the precision of these energy base or other devices, right? , yes. That they can't just left out there, right? And expect the patients to basically recover. Given the situations with the suns and exposure that they're gonna have.

So the recommendation is that you would use these particular products to help recover right. From the treatment you just perform. And in the sense of yes, there will be inflammatory problems, inflammations with some of the treatments, there will be a skin barrier, damages that you need a recovery from, and then obviously you need more colors and lastin to heal.

For do remodel, remodeling purposes. Sure. So that's where I feel our exosome fits three old categories where that's what we need. What we need to see is from the doctor's standpoint, when they send the patient home, right when they come back, you want really that three area to be recovered.

Right? That's why I recommend our product being used as a post-care.

Dr. Grant Stevens

And do you recommend it as a pre-care also?

Ethan Min

We actually are not recommending exosome as a pre-care but sometime when they try to build their skin condition for aggressive treatment. Yes. In that sense, so that you would a microneedle with let's say 0.3 millimeter.

Okay. And then you would apply exosome and then your skins gets, skin thickness is improved. Cuz there is a lot of trials and studies that are done that have just micro itself. Basically thicken the skin without aggressive energy base. Then they could be ready for maybe more aggressive treatment like CO2 fractional lasers, right?

For different purposes. Maybe then it can be used as a pre-treatment, but we're not recommending. uses of our exosome for, let's say right before treatment or two weeks before the treatments. Basically you would do the laser treatments and then again immediately after the laser procedures, right?

You can get our exosome topical application on site. By the providers.

Dr. Grant Stevens

And do you Dr. Jin, do you actually do these procedures on your patients? I know you're a physician. Yeah. Are you doing the procedures that, that he's mentioning? Yeah. Yeah. And then you're putting your patients on this topical exosome to help accelerate healing, correct?

Dr. Richard Jin

Yeah. It's basically in my practice. If you look at the whole, the history behind the regenerative. , aesthetics. Okay. It was going back two, almost two decades as growth factors and then PRP got really hot, right? Using platelets and using their innate properties and for healing for, like the vampire facial or for hair regeneration.

It works great and don't get me wrong, right? Then on on the echelon came like stem cells and oh, how do we use these things? Because they have a higher therapeutic kind of Compared to those other two that I just mentioned. And now we have exosomes. Because now you don't need the stem cells.

Dr. Grant Stevens

That was my next question. So exosomes have replaced stem cells?

Dr. Richard Jin

I'd say in a lot of, at least for topical,

Ethan Min

I should say. Yeah. Cause tropical. Yeah. Cause I wouldn't know topical what stem cell would do topically. That's why I always ask Dr. Jin, what would topical stem cell would. , but in the industry there were a few topical stem cells that are being sold and some of the doctors utilizing topical stem cell after "procedures" for the recovery purposes.

Dr. Richard Jin

Yeah, but The argument behind that is, or the justification behind that is it's really the, sometimes it's the access films that are being released by the stem cells. , so you are using the stem cells, but what are the actual actuators? Of, of healing or anti-inflammation. Okay. And more data is actually showing that it's actually the exosome. So how Ethan pointed out earlier about this trifecta of the innate properties of exosome. So it's like all these goodies bundled into one thing, right? Okay. You have anti-inflammatory properties, right? You have the ability.

Remodel the dermis, right? With more collagen, elastin, right? You have the ability to thicken the skin later, right? So you're able to do all these things. And it's crazy to think that exosomes, this little nanoparticle, they're about, a hundred nanometers in size. Has so much potential, has so much packed into it, right?

So it's really changed the conventional way of thinking and really changed the paradigm in terms of regenerative aesthetics, right?

Dr. Grant Stevens

When were exosomes first discovered, if you know, and a follow up question is, who made up the word exosome? Do you know? Or is it a made up word?

Dr. Richard Jin

That's a good question. I'm not, to me, I'm old that I'm not that old.

Ethan Min

The first, based on my knowledge, it was started in 2009 when. published article came out and before it was considered just a waste of the cell. Like all the people would see the exosome, more like the pockets and spears that are being released by the cell.

Then they were thought, they're thinking that it was more of waste. But then again, I think the 2003, and then as time goes by, they were thinking this is just not just a waste. And I think 2009 there. First that actually found that this isn't just a waste, there are something that are critical inside of these spears, and that's 2009.

Some of the earlier advisors of our product lines Dr. Lim from Singapore, she discovered adipose drived stem cell exosome. for the first time. And she's famous stem cell. And Dr. Jan, who's in Sweden now also, he's one of the expertise within exosome Field. He was a part of the Kodiak when he first started his own company, .

And he's no longer with a Kodiak anymore. Kodiak is the only company that I publicly traded in the United States with Exosome Focus. But anyway, so these are the people that are play heavily in research in toward end of 2000. Nine and 10, and in the beginning of 2000, I think 13 fourteens area at the time period they were publishing a lot of articles, but but that's really not aesthetic, not a medical aesthetic.

That was really more of a scientific era. Okay. And most of the people that are involved were scientists, not the medical doctors. Huh. No, I think there are still pretty big community out there. But as to the exosome within the medical aesthetics I heard word exosomes, word exosomes, in 2016. That's when I first heard.

Dr. Grant Stevens

So that's not that long ago. No.

Ethan Min

And then that's when we were having conversation about, and. and because we are already familiar with the growth sectors , and then we were start looking into the exosome as far as 2017. And then within a few years basically we were thinking, oh, this isn't really that different.

It required more technique, more skill, more studies to make sure that. Actually extract and isolated, and then again, put into a product where even we consider to be commercialized. So that's like 2017, like only five, six years ago.

Dr. Grant Stevens

So where you see exosomes that are in your product, are they from patients?

Dr. Richard Jin

The cell sources are adipose-derived mesenchymal stem cells.

Dr. Grant Stevens

Okay. And you harvest that fat from a patient and then from that fat, you derive the exosomes and you put it in the product that you give to many other patients. Is that correct or is this just for the patient?

In other words, does the patient have their own fat that's turned into the exosomes.

Ethan Min

So It's that people use word donor, but there's a specific terminology that are used in the country. stem cell products actually was registered as a medical device cuz Korea, they have what we call master Stem Cell Bank.

Okay. So which means is that the government actually regulates how the company would handle the stem cell. Starting from selecting a donor, screening them. Not only screen their individual, their health condition. Okay. And then get a donation of actually adipocyte, basically, and then get the stem cell from, and they screen the cell.

Okay. And then again, there is a complete process of a company need to go through and then again, be under that KFD regulation. So now we have that particular sources that we're getting our exosomes from. We have three. Quote unquote easy word donors or master stem cell bank. Okay. That we actually, and then again, Asia, between 21 and 23.

For what? The donor? Yes. Okay, so which is a stem cell. It's basically, but there are three donors behind it where we actually have our own master stem cell bank, where we have probably. we can use for over 20 more years with their cells if you maintain and keep it in a way they wanted it. And we're we, for the purpose of the development, we might have to add a few more master stem cell bank, but each process require about $300,000 investments from the beginning to the end until we finally able to use it for the manufacturing.

So it's like a donor of super donor of what the industry term people uses it. But there's specific a term that people uses when to describe a source of the cells for the exosome productions. So we have that in Korea now.

Dr. Grant Stevens

And is that the product then you bring to the United States? Yes. And then the patient or the customer who puts it on their skin, they get it from the doctor's office?

Ethan Min

Yes. It's doctor's office. Do they get it over the counter ever? No. It's doctor's office only. Okay. And we still don't have a products that Doctor dispenses basically, although we are categorized as a skincare, and it is. But we recommend to use our products only at the. By the doctors or by the providers. As an immediate post-care.

Dr. Grant Stevens

Okay. So the patient doesn't take it home with them?

Ethan Min

No, but we are actually coming out with the new products now that a doctor could recommend for patients to take home with. But there's a challenges involved right now cuz we can propagate into the whole conversation about the.

The how to store exosome. We haven't gone into it, but our goal now is to launch two new products as a post-care, not only at the doctor's office, but post-care so that they can take home with. But the critical part of that is that product will be recommended to be put in the refrigerations. So it'll be a little challenge, but that's the only way we feel that we're, say, with our scientific foundings of how product being viable and more efficient when it's stored in the minus 10 Celsius refrigerations.

Dr. Grant Stevens

So when Dr. Jin buys the product that he puts on his patient's face, eh, he buys it from you, from the comp, your company. And is it refrigerated at all times? Is that what you Yes. It comes to you overnight? Yeah. And does it stay in your refrigerator?

Dr. Richard Jin

It stays in the refrigerator.

Dr. Grant Stevens

And the source of the exosomese is this donor bank that's in. Yeah. Interesting. And then how do you control dosing? Do you know how many exosomes there are per cc or, do you quantify the exosomes or...

Dr. Richard Jin

yeah, there's a way to, to quantify exosomes. The way the exosome regenerative complex is sold now or offered.

We don't like to go into numbers too much cuz people they get so fixated. How many billion and this and like I have more than you. So it should be...

Dr. Grant Stevens

I'm not gonna ask you what the number is. I was just wondering if you do know the number Oh yeah. I'm not gonna ask you what the number is cuz it wouldn't mean anything to me.

Yeah. But okay, so they come from adipose cells, which are fat cells? Yes. You are the, at the bank, they derive 'em there in Korea, and then they send 'em to you here in Orange County, I assume? Yep. And then you put 'em into what? Just finish it a jar or a tube or...

Ethan Min

yeah, so it's all process that we have right now. Although we can't make a claim that this product is sterile because once you say it becomes a drug immediately.

Ah, but the products are manufacture in very clean, sterile environments. Okay. Fair enough. So that we don't say it's a sterile product, but again, it's manufactured within the sterile facility. I You right. Yeah. And then again, Li, which means dry freeze. Yes. And then for that matter, we could, instead of freezing it in minus 20 or minus 80, which is required by many other companies that are out there who handles exosome, we say it's stabilized so that you can actually store in refrigeration instead of a normal refrigerator. Normal refrigerators. And then, so then, shipping out overnight to our customers around the countryside.

Dr. Grant Stevens

And then do we, in the office, do we have to prepare it somewhere or do we take it right from the container and put it on the patient's skin?

Dr. Richard Jin

No. Yeah, so it's really convenient to use because they it comes in two separate vials and one is the lyophilized exosomes.

Okay. The second vial is a diluent. And I'm using my hands. Yeah, that's fine. But the, no, that's fine. The second vials a diluent. It's a HA based, or hyaluronic acid based diluent. Okay. That you basically reconstitute the lyophilized exosomes. And then with, after you add 'em together, it's maybe five minutes, five or six minutes at most.

Then it's fully. Dissolved and reconstituted, and then you can use it topically.

Dr. Grant Stevens

So I have a question. How it gets across the skin in, into the cells. I assume it's into the dermis or is it subdermal? And is it the fiberblast it turns on or is it...

Dr. Richard Jin

so I mean it, it depends on what modality you use to, to get the product there, right?

Because you could have the greatest thing, but our skin does. It keeps down and it does a great job of doing that, right? Yes. Now, that's why my question, but now what we're trying to do is we wanna get the exosome goodies into the skin to exert its benefits. Precisely, right? Yes. So that's why we have microneedling.

You have radio frequency, you hug and have ultrasound, then you have lasers. These are all modalities to break that barrier or disrupt that barrier, right? Correct. To help whatever you're gonna put on the skin absorb. Okay? , any of those that I just mentioned you, you use that to disrupt the barrier and the exosomes will naturally just absorb down into the skin.

Dr. Grant Stevens

And then they use them daily until the barrier is reconstitute or the healing is over.

Dr. Richard Jin

It, I mean it that would depend because then you get into this whole philosophical argument of let's say if you microneedle, how long do the channel stay open for? That was gonna be my follow up question, right? We could argue about that all day long, right? But I think that the most effective way is to use some type of, either a mechanical or energy process to disrupt that barrier and then to apply the exosomes right afterwards.

Dr. Grant Stevens

Okay, so that's the day of. Procedure. Patient goes home. Do they keep putting it on at home or right now? No. Yeah. Okay. So it happens at the doctor's office. That's it. You've broke down the stratum cornea with your drill holes or whatever you're doing. Laser microneedling with RF microneedling play. That opens the tunnel or the channel. The exosomes go down the channel. And then where are they active? Is that at the fibroblast?

Ethan Min

I wouldn't go that deep because of the whole issues with the claim. Because again, if we make, say, if you may say that it penetrate to the level, then it'll be an issue.

Oh, okay. What we now with the post-care with uses and benefit that they see is the whole epithelial and above. Yes. And then obviously epi— cell also too, right? And then again, a lot of time we stay with topical claims, right? With the very, with the surface level of the skin. I guess when we get into the whole dermal layers of fibroblasts and all the other area and layers that we, we talked about, we become an issue. Okay. Because again there are a other ingredient that willingly we say, cuz it's penetrate and fda, be okay with glycolic acid, for instance. Yes. It's something that our grandfather in some of the chemical peels, still under cosmetic category, but we all know that it penetrate. But FDA said it's ok. to say it cuz it's grandfathered. Then exosome is not that ingredient yet. Okay. So we should definitely be a little more careful in when we talk about the penetration. I got it.

Dr. Grant Stevens

I'm not trying to get you trouble. No. I'm just trying to understand the form of picture. Yeah. And I know our watchers, our viewers and listeners have the same questions. Yeah. Because it's certainly the buzzword. Yeah. At Aesthetic Innovation Summit, I kept hearing exosomes, exosome. and it seems to be one of the biggest buzzwords in aesthetics lately. I'm trying to get a handle on it. Yeah. And I know others are also trying to figure it out. Now it's made in a sterile environment. We're not claiming sterility, but it is. Yeah. But it's made in a sterile environment and then you apply it. How do you apply it to the skin?

Is it with your gloved hand? Is it with a syringe? Is it with a tongue depressant, or all the above? None of the above mean. How do you put it on your patients? I'm just curious. And is it a liquid when you do it?

Dr. Richard Jin

Right. So it a, after you reconstituted it, it is in a liquid form. Okay. Because of the hyaluronic acid that's in the diluent.

It's nice cuz it's a little viscous. It doesn't just run off like water, right? And with any procedure you want to, whether you're doing it sterilely or not, like your procedure itself, yes. You wanna I think practice, clean practices, right? So of course I at least have a glove on, right?

and then be able to either use your, a plastic applicator or. Some people will use a gloved hand as long as it's clean, okay? To help I guess massage it in or cover the skin that you just went over with your modality.

Dr. Grant Stevens

So it's easy. You just put it on and rub it in a little bit.

Ethan Min

Yep. So the concept will be very similar to a lot of people that are doing the PRP facial. Yes. the PRP, some people will do PRP for injection, but PRP facial is really the concept that you can picture yourself. And then again, if you use our exosome, it'll be exactly that topical, right?

You put it on top, and then whether they use it with the needleless syringes or just the hand applications. but the solution has got a little more viscosity, so it'd be more easier to keep it on and then again, apply product with.

Dr. Grant Stevens

When you're talking about PRP, are there exosomes inside of prp?

Ethan Min

That's a really good question.

Dr. Richard Jin

So are we talking about if you wanna get a really semantic about it, are we talking about PRP or are we talking about platelets? They're two different...

Dr. Grant Stevens

You talk about PRP, facials, What is that? Is that PRP or is it platelets?

Dr. Richard Jin

PRP is made up of platelets. But it also has plasma, right? So let's say if we were to use PPP, platelet poor plasma instead of platelet rich plasma, are there still exosomes in the plasma? Oh, yes, there are.

Dr. Grant Stevens

There are. So that's another way to get exosomes. But it's less efficient. Is it Less concentrated?

Dr. Richard Jin

As opposed to?

Dr. Grant Stevens

As opposed to the technology out of Korea. What you're doing.

Dr. Richard Jin

It's a different it's a different source, right?

Dr. Grant Stevens

Oh, because it's platelets from adipocytes.

Dr. Richard Jin

So if you think about, and you get really technical about platelets, what are the most common growth, say growth factors.

Okay. What are the most common growth factors associated with platelets? And when platelets are activated, what are these goodies that you're relying on to help rejuvenate the. Okay. You're talking about literally three or four. You're talking about platelet derived growth factor, pdgf, TGF beta transforming growth factor, and you're talking about EGF epidermal growth factor, right?

Aside from that, you don't have that many more growth factors that are actively released when platelets are activated. These are native platelets. Okay? Now, if you're taking plasma, okay, so you have the platelets and now you have the plasma, so that makes PRP in our plasma, we have a ton of other exosomes or growth factors in there.

Okay. I've, we know this because I've I've seen it. We've run these studies and we've profiled all different sources of cell types and it's amazing because they all have a different footprint. So if you were to compare strictly platelets, right? Yep. Versus and the exosomes from the platelets versus exosomes released by adipose cells or adipose derival stem cells. Okay. There's a huge difference. It's night and day different.

Dr. Grant Stevens

In terms of quantity or quality or type of exosomes or all the above?

Dr. Richard Jin

All the above. Really. All the above. Because you talk about prof profiling exosomes, and you say how many growth factors could possibly be in an exosome?

Okay. And it, it depends on the cell type. All right. So if you're asking. If you profile an exosome coming from a platelet, how many different growth factors do you expect to see? I wouldn't expect to see more than a handful, to be quite honest with you. Okay. From a native platelet. I get it.

And whereas adipose arrive in meca stem cell, how many growth factors do you expect? We've already shown it. There's 50 plus. I think now we're it's closer to 100 different growth factors. So the adipocytes a better source.

Ethan Min

It's really the choice I think we made. Yeah. And we, when I first asked, we discussed, it was a choice that we made because there are more studies that are being done and published with adipocytes stem cells.

Okay. And there was a safe issues when we first look into the six, seven. So that was naturally first cases that we looked at, the placenta base, we looked at all the different cell sources. We saw there are just tremendous amount of the published paper regards to the adipocytes in adipose- derived stem cell.

Yeah. So that's when we decide, okay, this would be a so much better option from the safety standpoint. And then secondly the cost aspect was a big deal, right? Where in what sense? From getting a source of making up basically the master cell bank, right? With the source being easier, basically with having that adipocyte versus the placental base, right?

And then as far as the profiling everything, and then we, after we decide that factor, we were able to find a lot of different growth factors. And then again, As we were doing at profiling, there's abundant amount of things are already enough to begin with. That we don't really look at other sources because if this is true and viable, then this is good enough.

I think there's a lot of debate still going back and forth, which sources the better, but I think our attitude is really. we chose our sources for this matter, right? I don't want to say we are our sources better than other, because again, the placental base, there's so much more they can find out moving forward that it's something that, that we don't know to begin with.

And then again, I don't know, it could be a scientific arguments, which is a good thing. Between scientist. But from my standpoint, I think, as I said, there's a business reason as to why we chose the source that we have. Oh, sure. And then that's probably as far as I can go, and I think that our product's great, but I don't wanna say our source is better than other sources.

Dr. Richard Jin

I think from a quantification perspective, yes. Adipose derived or exosomes from adipose derived, mesenchymal stem cells have way more growth factors, interleukins, cytokines, micro rna, compared to other sources. Now the question is does it make, do you see that difference just because it has 50 times more?

Are you gonna see a 50 fold increase in clinical efficacy?

Dr. Grant Stevens

And do you have the answer to that?

Dr. Richard Jin

I think the answer still remains to be seen. Interesting. I think in this realm of regenerative aesthetics, I think there's room for all of us. And I think what's what's great about it is if we can be transparent and collaborate, because there's, and we have to look at it, the big picture rather than, Hey, I'm the best. Ours is the. Or the first or the news. Yeah. But I think we're just, we're so the field is still very young, right? Yeah. So we're talking about like medical aesthetics.

There's other, others in the medical industry talking about therapeutics and how do you apply this to different clinical...

Dr. Grant Stevens

That's one of my questions. Are you putting in joint spaces or using it for ortho or non beautification things?

Ethan Min

So it's in the pipeline. Obviously. We know it's basically realistic speaking probably seven to 10 year process.

The earliest based on the resource that we have, based on the step that we take, in, in our partner and company in Korea with our sources and the studies that are being done. But that's certainly area that we've looked at it from standpoint of how we could come up with a exosome solutions could be injected.

To be commercialized as that. But there might be a way, just like how PRP became autologous and then again, it's medical device and how the doctor could utilize the kit, right? To get the PRP from the one's bloods, and then inject it, right? So that might be the way for us to go around with exosome if we can come up with autologous way.

Extracting exosomes for your own body, for instance your own blood, . And then we have enough quantifications as to, okay, if this will be enough to treat or be a good enough to have a therapeutic benefit. Are you looking into that right now? We've been looking into it for a while, but it's challenging.

Definitely.

Dr. Grant Stevens

Yeah. That would be very exciting. Yeah. And then...

Ethan Min

but we're not looking at a approval as a drug or biologics. We're looking at more of a medical devices who could help. Doctors get it as an autologous solution from patient's own body, right? Right now process will require based on our study, that certain level of the, a proliferating the culturing process, which is the big issue by fda.

So without culturing the cell, right? Yeah. Can we just get it from the blood? Can you just get it from the urines basically? Or can we get it from somewhere where they inject back in. But it's challenging. So it's years of work that I think still needs to hap needs to happen.

Dr. Grant Stevens

Let me ask you this, Dr. Jin, have you done any split face studies? Blinded split face studies? Yep. You have, so on one side you put the active ingredient on the other side you put an in inner non-active non-exam. And what have you found?

Dr. Richard Jin

We've found dramatic improvement in skin quality. This was the acne scarring study.

Dr. Grant Stevens

Yeah. So was it like laser or what's, what was the modality?

Ethan Min

So the CO2 fractional lasers Okay. Was used as the modality, which is known to be most aggressive lasers out in the market. Absolutely. So we did blind studies for the half phase with exosomes, without exosomes. Okay. So we are the first company that have published as far as the clinical trials.

So I think, correct me if I'm wrong I was trying to find out if there's any other clinical. that are published or peer review with STI level. I know I couldn't find anything else but us, so I can, you can only just don't call me on it. But again, as far as I'm concerned, I don't think still there's a lot of buzzword out there, but there is a lot of white papers out.

But I haven't yet to see a real blind faces clinical trial study done, but we already published it two years ago. So that was the first topical application of exosomes.

Dr. Grant Stevens

And where did you publish that?

Ethan Min

In Europe. We, okay. We were slow, trying to say down low because we didn't want to get strongly in faced with fda, because somehow I was trying to play very safe.

So when our partners were discussed about, let's publish it it's actually, it's very famous term, related derm term related genres for the. So it was acne scar with the CO2 fractional later. So it's available on our website and we basically, make it known to everybody. We just submitted two studies in us with both of 'em.

Multiple Speakers

With the microneedle okay. As a post-care. With, for the, and was it for acne scoring or was it for

like wrinkles wrinkle and then for the hair as well? Hair, yeah, for the skull, regenerations. Boy.

Dr. Grant Stevens

Yeah. So now we're talking hair. So hair growth.

Ethan Min

Scalp regeneration. We call it scalp health. But obviously the outcome will be, basically that people stop losing hairs.

And then again, I can't disclose the data right now because we just submitted it a few weeks ago. That's okay. But we're excited to see that how you can treat the scalp, just like how you treat the skin, it makes sense to bring back the cycles of skin, bring back the cycles of the scalp, with the follicles. And then again, it's natural for us to even scientific assumptions that you may bring back the function of own its own.

Dr. Grant Stevens

That would be fantastic. Do you use that in your practice?

Ethan Min

I do. Yeah. So that's...

Dr. Grant Stevens

I figured so much. You were originally bald, right? And you grew all that hair?

Ethan Min

Sure, that's it. So I think that's the idea. And Dr. Jin was involved in some of the in vitro and in vivo. Obviously earlier where I think that's something that I always like to highlight. Cause I'm not a scientist, but when I look at it, I look for scientific validation. I'm not a inventor or anything, but when I look for technology as you always do, I look for validation of technology.

Sure. And then again, how do you validate the science? It's, you can't just, I can't just listen. What he's saying is a scientist and Oh, that's, but how do you validate that? You have to basically have it peer review by other scientists, the way you do it, basically publish it, right? So I haven't seen any other competition have that type of, as a company, as an individual may have, but we actually stick our name out and we make sure with our partner company that we do all the in vitro, in vivo, ex vivo, and the clinical.

And again, that's the way you usually go about when you develop something that are, not only valid in the clinical aspect. And yes, I understand if works, it works, if put it on works, it works. But do you have a actual scientific study and data to prove that the product was worthy of putting on the, in the skin of the patient?

Yeah, that's the question. Yeah. Have you done your in vivo study right before you jump on? Start putting it on and see if it works or not have done X in vivo study, making sure that it actually, there's a clinical outcome at the in vivo level. And I think that's what made us differentiated when even before we launched our product four years ago, we already have that study mapped out.

Dr. Grant Stevens

And what is the product called? If a patient wanted to ask for it? Who's watching this program? How would they ask their doctor or ask?

Ethan Min

It'd be a ask a product name is Exosome Regenerative Complex.

Dr. Grant Stevens

Exosome Regenerative Complex. Complex.

Ethan Min

Okay. And we have Exosome Regenerative Complex Plus.

Dr. Grant Stevens

Okay. And what's the difference?

Ethan Min

Just more higher concentration. Okay. More concentrations and ones really are for skin. And then again, the second one being a little higher. Dosages for the. So that's how we position our products. And these are all done in the professional setting. So these are not being sold right? For a few reason.

We want our doctors to engage and communicate about the science of exosome and the benefit of exosome. And it's really difficult now concept for a end user patient to understand. I think yes, eventually they will, just like how growth factors were. And then second. We wanted to spend our time making sure that we perfect our products with the scientific evidence cuz again now we don't have enough of data to show the stability of the ability of the exosome in room temperature.

So I, we speak out loud that we don't have a confidence in the formulation that we have, right? That once it's keep it in room temperature, product will be valuable. , we wanted to stay within professional setting where everybody's so used to, right? Having the product just like Botox and being refrigerated, absolutely constituted and using it.

Now that one that we're gonna come out with soon with exosome that are being recommended, sold to the patient, it'll still be a post-care, but we're gonna probably ask right, our patients to make sure when you bring it home, 24 hours is okay. Make sure, put it in your refrigerators, and then for the best of your uses.

Dr. Grant Stevens

That makes sense. Yeah. Yeah. Fascinating. One last question regarding exosomes. Can other skincare companies get your exosomes or the Korean exosomes and put 'em into their skincare lines?

Ethan Min

We've been asked by it. Our answer has been no. I see. Yeah. From our sources, our manufacturing. Okay. We've been asked by many other medical device companies.

Dr. Grant Stevens

I would think so, yeah. Yeah, I would think other people would want to get their hands.

Ethan Min

That was what I was doing when I first launched the Growth Factor Businesses back in 15 years ago. Ah, that we started our Growth Factor product lines. Once we launched it, there were a lot of issues with the FDA looking at growth factor.

Oh, you guys making too much claim? Are you guys doing as a skincare? Is that a drug? Medical devices? We were skincare. And once the words went out and then popular, a lot of company wanted to manufacture. So back then we said yes. Why not? It's technology. And then again, we wanted to stay down low be because of the FDA or keep pounding on us asking us the question

And, but anyway, that's not gonna work. Yeah. But this time when we talked about it, let's try to focus, and again, this time we want to be the one that handles and then again directly wood f if there's an issue. Sure. And then again, we don't know how this is gonna evolve at this point but we wanted to be at a core of our brand building with our products that are linked to the technology that we have.

So then answer to these requests that are, came in that they wanted a private. And answer was no. But that was a business decision. So it may change moving forward, but up until now that's just what it is. But as far as other sources, there are excellent companies in South America.

There are excellent companies in Europe. There's excellent companies in Asia, excellent. Lots of excellent companies in China, by the way. So you'd be surprised, huh? You will see some of the product coming into the market.

Dr. Grant Stevens

Are they all topical, all those ones you're talking about? Or are they also

Ethan Min

injectable?

none of them are injectable, period. Okay? Okay. There are no single injectable product that are approved based on our knowledge. , right? All of them now start saying they're topical, which is a good thing. Before they were saying they were injectable, but now because FDA, now they're saying topical.

Okay. Which is the word easier that I've been communicating and emphasis that I've been communicating to the industry. Yes. Meaning all the com competition, which I know of, that you guys really need to come in into the lights of using the proper word instead of saying, this is the exosome skincare. They would hide their mouth when they say skin.

You should say exosome on skincare. That's the only way, right? You can legally commercialize this product now in us, right? And elsewhere the same way, by the way. I think it's a good sign now. The few of the company came out after us. Now they're claiming skincare, which is very smart. They've done their study, making sure that's the only way to commercialize exosomese now in the market.

Fascinating. And I feel like I've deserved the recognition because I've been communicating with you personally? Yeah. Okay. Because I've been communicating with all of them that I've, I want the competitions to grow. , I want, because again, I can't just be a single company and then grow cuz we need the competition.

We need a challenging to improve and develop better.

Dr. Grant Stevens

I'll ask Yes. Just talked about that. So rising tides, so you want everything to go up?

Ethan Min

Yeah. Reason I respect me being Korean is one thing, reason I respect the Korean industry when it comes to aesthetic is cuz competition is what's driving the.

It's amazing how a lot of good competition, a lot of good competition are happening. But again, it's sometimes is brutal, but good technology goes down because of the competition. But I think that, I've seen how the, someone's technology grow, but you need industry to grow together.

You need other competitions. I think that's the way I see it and I was happy to see the competition coming out. Cuz again, we've launched our product four years. product you see now is a product we start selling four years ago. Okay. But I see a lot of other competition changing their product every six month because they try to keep up with FDA regulation.

Oh, oh. Changing their labels, changing their claims, changing how they approach and how they sell to the doctors. I think that's a good sign cuz I think everybody try to stay and walk into the playground, which I feel very safe that I created. Then in order for you to be stay legal, commercialize it.

This is the way to go. Perfect. Yep.

Dr. Grant Stevens

Anything else you'd like to add? Anything else? I know I've learned a ton.

Dr. Richard Jin

Yeah. I think these are, exciting times and like I said, I think competition really spurs innovation too. So it's great. A lot of us are, or a lot of other companies are jumping into that space.

But I think behind it, and anything that we do as practitioners to patients, I think we have that responsibility to, to be able to make sure what we're using is vetted right and right. Instead of, sex cells, right? If something is sexy, it's great, and a lot of the market is driven by marketing, right?

But you always wanna make sure that when you're dealing with something, especially in the regenerative realm, They can back it up with absolutely. Data. And I think we need to practice responsibly, but it's fun and I think there's gonna be more to come in the next couple years.

Oh yeah.

Ethan Min

Very excited to come. And as a company, the Benev way I, when I look at the product, cause we don't. We manufacture our product, but we also recognize other technology and then bring, use our companies to be introduced into the market. For instance, we bring some of the product from Korea to us.

We are involved in every single step of the way from the development, manufacturing, all the way to the registrations, to the marketing and branding. I think that's our know-how, but the core principle behind it is that it has to be validated with the sciences, right? Do they really have that core science that are being validated by other peer review article technology?

It's my word against your word, right? I invent something really cool. Who's gonna know? Is there a pattern behind it? The company will spend time and effort with the inventor behind it, right? To develop a technology. That's really the. And then the final aspect is the regulatory right? I could be in a gray area and be in a certain way, but we need to make sure that these product, especially in the medical aesthetic or regenerative aesthetic, we need to clear out right as to how these products are being categorized and labeled.

That way doctors can use off-label. right? We don't want doctors to use illegal label. We want them to use off-label if they may, cuz it's their so these are the three key elements. Us as a Ben company look out when we introduce a product into the market. And we wanna make sure that all the due diligence and then again, worse done prior to launching a products.

And I think that's very important. And what I've learned from industry being out here for the last 18 years and I tried some of that just prematurely launch something that are. being validated with this core principle. But now everything that we are gonna introduce to the market moving forward as a new products and tech technology will be under the core principle of the validated science validated technology and validated in the regulatory aspect.

That will serve you well. Yeah, I hope so.

Dr. Grant Stevens

I want to thank you gentlemen for coming here for you for coming all the way from Korea. Thank you.

Ethan Min

I gotta go back.

Dr. Grant Stevens

You may have come the furthest, I don't know, which is farther Korea or Switzerland. Yeah. We did have one guest from Switzerland, Fleming, from Galderma.

Ethan Min

Wow. But, oh, I think I saw that one.

Dr. Grant Stevens

Yeah. Yeah. And Benev it sounds like quite a company and you guys have been there with them much longer than I had any. Thank you. And I look forward to seeing what, how you're gonna keep developing it. It seems like you're scratching the surface and it's a really exciting field.

Be sure to look into the Aesthetic Innovation Summit that we do before the Aesthetic Society every year. I think your company would be positioned very well to present there at ais, or it's usually the day before the Aesthetic Society meeting. Thank you, I'll give you some information on that, and I want to thank all of you for joining us today at the Technology of Beauty, and you just learned an awful lot about exosomes by Ethan here and Dr. Jin from Benev. Talk to you soon. I'll see you next week.