Finding Opportunity in the Trillion-Dollar Beauty+Wellness Market

Dr. Grant Stevens

Hello everyone and welcome back to the technology of beauty. Where I have the opportunity to interview the movers and shakers of the beauty business, and today is no exception, we have Lindsay Carlson who came all the way from Atlanta, Georgia, and she works with William Blair. And it's so great to have you. you came from Buckhead today, right?

Lindsay Carlson

I did. Thank you Grant. It's great to be here. I know we first connected at Octane when we were on that panel together. And so I look forward to continuing the conversation today.

Dr. Grant Stevens

Fantastic. It was a fun panel and that's a great meeting in Newport every year. Are you gonna be there next year at Octane?

I hope so. I hope so too. And I hope I am also, I think I. It's a fun meeting and we also have a meeting AIS, which is the Aesthetic Innovation Summit and that's the day before the Aesthetic Society meeting. And that will be in April in Miami. And I hope I can get you to come to that also. That would be fantastic.

I'll try my best to get you there. So, let's see. Let's start with this. Where are you from? Where'd you grow up?

Lindsay Carlson

I was born and raised in St. Louis, and I think there's a St. Louis connection between us if I recall.

Dr. Grant Stevens

Oh, yes, there is. So you were born and raised in St. Louis. What hospital were you born in?

Lindsay Carlson

That's a good question. I should know the, I do not know the answer to that.

Dr. Grant Stevens

Did you go to high school in St. Louis?

Lindsay Carlson

I did.

Dr. Grant Stevens

And that's what high school? That's the St. Louis question.

Lindsay Carlson

I went to Mary Institute in St. Louis Country Day School. Yes. Also known as M I C D S.

Dr. Grant Stevens

I know it well. Well, fantastic.

What part of town did you live in, outta curiosity?

Lindsay Carlson

I lived in Kirkwood there. My parents are still there and have very fond memories of growing up there.

Dr. Grant Stevens

Oh, that's wonderful. I was there for medical school at Washington University for, for four years, and then I went back and did plastic surgery there and my fellowship there at, Washington University in Barnes Hospital and Sure.

All the, I live right there on, Kings Highway at the ABC building, the Central West. The second time. Yeah.

Lindsay Carlson

I love it. I actually got married on Washington University's campus. Oh, it's beautiful. So full circle.

Dr. Grant Stevens

Yeah. Well that's wonderful. Okay, so off from St. Louis. Where'd you go to college?

Lindsay Carlson

So I stuck with my Midwestern roots and I went to Miami of Ohio, where I majored in accounting. my father was a. Big supporter and, and a big push for me to do that. He wanted me to understand the building blocks of business, so I took his advice to heart. and even further than that, once I graduated from Miami, I went on to the University of Michigan to get a master's in accounting,

And when I was there, it was a really pivotal time for me. And, and formative year is I shifted my path from accounting into investment banking. And that's where my career has led for the past 15 plus years.

Dr. Grant Stevens

So you've been a banker for 15 plus years? And I don't think you look like you could have been a banker that long.

Okay. So, and have you been at William Blair the whole time?

Lindsay Carlson

I have been at William Blair the whole time, which is very unique. Yes. Many bankers do not stay and build their careers at one firm, and I think it's a big testament to the special place that William Blair.

Dr. Grant Stevens

And your background with accounting sets you apart from many bankers, and I think that's a wonderful background for the bankers.

So that's fantastic. And then, then when you, did you get your MBA then when you were at the University of Michigan.

Lindsay Carlson

Didn't. So I, I got a master's in accounting there. Okay. And went straight into banking, started in our Chicago office, spent a number of years there, which is where William Blair's headquarters are.

Then I moved to New York when we opened an office on the East Coast, and now Atlanta, as you mentioned, is home base for me. I'd say the common thread through all of those different moves has been consumer. I've always been focused on advising, exciting, high growth consumer brands and stories, and that's a true passion of mine.

Dr. Grant Stevens

Okay, well we're gonna get into that cuz we wanna learn from you and about that. Okay. So you stayed at William Blair, you were always in consumer. What sort of brands early on were you working on that we would recognize, for instance?

Lindsay Carlson

Oh gosh, there's a lot of household and iconic brands like a Lululemon, a Duluth, trading Annies on the food and beverage. Planet Fitness, you think about just gyms and, fitness chains. So it, it really runs the gamut.

Dr. Grant Stevens

Okay. And when did you get into aesthetics?

Lindsay Carlson

So, I got into beauty a handful of years ago. We had covered the category under consumer products, at Blair for a number of years. And we saw just the continued amount of m and a activity, was very steady and actually continued to. And so I was tapped to lead our beauty and wellness efforts, which has been great.

Dr. Grant Stevens

There's so across the entire William Blair?

Lindsay Carlson

Yes. Yeah.

Dr. Grant Stevens

So what's your title? Your proper title?

Lindsay Carlson

So I am a partner in our consumer and retail group and a managing director and head of Beauty and Wellness. Okay.

Dr. Grant Stevens

So can you share with us the brand you're working on now or is that confidential information?

Lindsay Carlson

That's confidential now, but I think, our listeners today would probably be interested in some of the more aesthetic oriented deals that we've done as of late. Exactly. we advised Alastin Skincare On their sale to Galderma. which was a very exciting deal, which closed earlier this year.

we were the sell side advisor to Alastin. another one in that professional skincare space. We advised Griffin Investors, they're a private equity firm here on the West Coast. They acquired revision skincare. and Goodier. another great deal. we advised beauty. on their recent convertible debt offering that they raised to put a lot of capital on their balance sheet.

They've been very public about their intentions to do M&A deals in this space.

Dr. Grant Stevens

And how much money did you put on their balance sheet?

Lindsay Carlson

It was a 500 million deal. Okay. Excellent. And they continue to perform very well. Right. And then most recently we advised a business called Elevation Labs. So as you think about beauty, it's very much brand oriented or service providers.

And this is a value added development partner that manufacturers for very exciting brands in the space. And some of their key clients are professional skincare brands. prestige skincare and, and hair care brands. And we sold that business to Knox. which is another private equity firm here on the west.

Dr. Grant Stevens

Wow. Well, first I want to thank you for advising on the Alastin deal. that was, a deal I was involved in and I am so happy, with that, what you were able to pull off with Galderma. Thank you very much. Yes. Hopefully we'll hit the got fantastic outcome. Absolutely. Absolutely. And, we've had a number of people from Alastin on the show, actually, including Maryanne Guerra, as you know, and Diane.

Yeah. I mean, excuse me. Not Marian Diane too. Diane. Gory, yes. That's where I meant, excuse me. And, we've had other people also, as you know, from the, from the, the Line, and I am from Gal. We had, different Galderma people.

Lindsay Carlson

That's great. So that's great. That Emmy, that was such an exciting story. And I think, you know, just their ability to ramp that business from 2015 to exiting it earlier or amazing, essentially amazing late 2021.

Their hyper-growth mode. Right. They had over a hundred percent top line cagr. Yeah. Which is just off the charts. I mean, they. Fastest growing professional skincare brand at that time. . you think about the innovation that they led, right? You know this very well. They created a whole new category, right, for that space, and that partnership is just perfect.

You look at. Galderma's, portfolio leading with injectables like Restylane and Dysport. and then their consumer brands. Ceil being just a powerhouse, but there was a big white space opportunity for them, right. You have the consumer who's going into the derm, who's going in to see her plastic surgeon and perhaps getting injectable.

And recommended an Alastin skincare, product. It, it makes complete sense for them to own that, no question. And so really just a win-win in their ability to supercharge it with their global presence and, and take the brand into the hands of more and more consumers.

Dr. Grant Stevens

I couldn't agree with you more. So thank you very much for your hand in that. How do you see the aesthetic business developing now? what, what do you see in the future? What's going on?

Lindsay Carlson

It's such a massive category, and you think about just the total addressable market of beauty. It's half a billion. You combine that with wellness today, that's a trillion dollar market, a trillion dollar market.

Wellnesses. Yes, and I think what's just so interesting about beauty and aesthetics is that. The definition continues to evolve. Right. And you think about the consumer today that inner health is such a big part of your outer appearance and beauty, and that convergence between beauty, aesthetics, healthcare, technology, of course, right?

Just really expands the market. And in my world, we used to think of beauty as skincare, color, cosmetics, hair care. Now that definition is much broader. It includes things like vitamins and supplements, right? Right. Sexual wellness, aesthetics. Right. Everything that's happening in in med spas, all of the services, you know, punchline is it's, it's a massive market and it's growing and that's what I think is so exciting.

Dr. Grant Stevens

So along those lines, we've had the opportunity to, I. Different people, obviously on this show. Yes. And recently we were able to interview Nikki, regarding, the sweat market basically. Right? The Hyperhydrosis in general for the fda, clearance and so forth. But the whole idea of limiting sweat.

Which, and that might help in terms of ruining your clothing, personal confidence and so forth. Any comments along those lines that you can share with us regarding that market? I'm just curious, curious what your thoughts are.

Lindsay Carlson

That market is new. I think it's very innovative and I think the consumers open to trying new things, right? And you think about just on the consumable front, they are expanding their horizons. They're trying new products that have endorsement from a trusted professional. And if you're in a derm, a plastics office, and you explain an issue that you have and you hear about a new solution. Right, right.

I think the consumer's very open to that. You talk about confidence, you know, that plays into it too. The consumer's taking this into primarily her own hands, but men are a big part of the story today too. you think about self-care, right. It's, it's really being proactive and in your health and getting the solutions that you need to feel beautiful and to have the confidence.

Dr. Grant Stevens

What do you think about the average age going when consumers…

Lindsay Carlson

I think it's going down dramatically. And I think that that's a very powerful trend for companies in the space because you're able to really connect with that consumer at an early age and stay with them for a longer period of time. Right? It's a big benefit. For everyone.

Dr. Grant Stevens

For the whole, for the whole industry.

Lindsay Carlson

Right? For the whole industry. For sure. Right, for sure. And you're seeing consumers are doing aesthetic treatments much earlier, and that goes hand in hand with the growth we're seeing on the product side, because once you're using those services and getting injectables or Botox or cool sculpting or whatever it may be, right?

With going back to Alastin. You're using those skincare products you're exposed to that you're familiar with, that you're on that path, right? Because you're going to maintain and and prevent for a longer period of time.

Dr. Grant Stevens

So it's kinda like the drug dealer model. We get 'em hooked on Alastin and then we just keep on going,

Lindsay Carlson

Exactly. Exactly. So, In the subject of toxins or neuromodulators. Neurotoxins. I hate the word toxin, but you know what I'm talking about. The classic, of course being Botox, but we have five of them now. we're looking at another one and now and maybe another one. So, but the question I have for you, and when you advise companies and other people, and I'd love to know what your thoughts are about duration, because presently the five we have are more similar than they're different.

Of course there are some. There's some differences in the five, but for the most part they're, they last three to four months, they do pretty much the same thing. I know everyone can argue this, but, but, but now we have one potentially that may be approved shortly, maybe, that is to say cleared that, that allegedly has a twice as long, indication.

And and then we hear about yet another one on the program. Fleming talked about Galderma actually. Sure. Having now one that may follow with, again, a six month or longer indication. What are your thoughts about the longer indications, just in general, without even being product specific? You could be product agnostic, but longer duration versus the existing duration.

Dr. Grant Stevens

Do you think that's gonna change behavior, a consumer behavior? And if so, which direction?

Lindsay Carlson

I think that's a plus for the. right. Okay. You get the extended benefit, for a longer period of time. I think the question, going back to a business perspective of that is you have the consumer in your office, in your chair, Less often.

And what is the financial impact of that? And you have to balance it, right? I think to the physician for sure. It's a balance. I think this consumer who plays in this world is not just doing one type of treatment and it's getting them familiar with other offerings. in your office.

Right? What else can they be doing to address other needs that they might have? Getting them on a skincare product regime to the extent that they're not on that front. I think there's other opportunities to speak, to the patient, to the consumer, but ultimately, you know, if that's a bigger, if that's a big benefit, which it seems like it would be to have that extend.

I think that's a win-win for everyone. Okay.

Dr. Grant Stevens

There was a toxin, it still exists that I think Allergan actually bought it, that it, it kicked in sooner, but it lasted much shorter. And I, I don't remember the name of it. I think it was at a Newport Beach. and I always wondered why would someone want a shorter acting toxin?

And then I was given an argument for that, but I, I never could understand why someone would want something last shorter. But, and that's…

Lindsay Carlson

Sounds like more maintenance and more time in chair.

Dr. Grant Stevens

It's not commercial. So I'm not sure what's gonna happen with that. Yes. But I tend to agree with you and certainly in the therapeutic side, not in the cosmetic side, but in the therapeutic side, if you're, benefiting from a neurotoxin, therapeutically for some medical reason.

Yes. The fact that it lasts. six months, say hypothetically, we'll say six months. And you can get it twice a year. It seems like a huge advantage to me. If I'm getting treated for whatever migraines, sweating, whatever the issue. That seems certainly a better deal. Plus, I think Medicare and the third party carriers would rather pay physicians twice instead of four times. If you know what I mean. And sometimes that directs the market, right?

Lindsay Carlson

Yes, Absolutely.

Dr. Grant Stevens

Absolutely. So what other areas within the aesthetic space are really, interesting? You mean? Are there other areas that you've seen either up and coming or developing?

Lindsay Carlson

I think what's interesting to watch, going back to just the categories within beauty and setting, you know, skincare has gotten a lot of buzz. Yes. Everyone has talked about the shift to that professional recommendation. You think about traditional beauty, which has been very influencer driven, having that authority, speak to a product and products that have a lot of proprietary technology, clinical studies behind them.

There's. Proven efficacy. That's very powerful. In my world, there's been a lot of buzz about products have to be clean and clean is now table stakes, but I think the consumer wants more than clean products and clean. This is from an ingredient standpoint. What do you mean by that? They want products that work that don't have unnecessary ingredients that could be perceived as bad for you.

Did you think about clean household products? Okay. Right. Eating clean. You want clean products that go on your face. but really cutting through that, and that's still a theme. Cutting through that. Products that work, right. Products that truly work. And you've seen that in skincare. It's played out very well.

I think we're starting to see that in hair care now and that's a, a big, massive market as well. It's talked about as the scarification of hair. And, you know, you think coming out of a pandemic. People have been stressed, people have been pent up at home. There's been a lot of issues that people have noticed in and around their hair.

Things like hair loss, hair thinning, how is products, how are different, you know, ingestibles treating that need. that's, that's been a, there's been a lot of interest in, in that as of.

Dr. Grant Stevens

Well, I've certainly seen a lot about supplements and topicals. Yes. For, for thicker hair and Sure. Hair growth. which actually leads me to the question I wanted to ask you.

What about exosomes? I keep hearing about exosomes is, are you being assaulted by this exosome craze?

Lindsay Carlson

Not yet, but I'm gonna have to get up to speed more. On the beauty side, that's not as big as well.

Dr. Grant Stevens

We keep hearing about exosomes. Yeah. And on in topicals for, for transcutaneous application, to stimulate and turn, modulate and turn on cells and so forth.

So, okay. I was curious if you've been exposed to that much. Certainly the supplements for. Both topical and oral. Lot of, lot of buzz in our offices and in the aesthetic industry. Yes, for sure. No question about that.

Lindsay Carlson

And it's caught the attention of strategics too. You think about building a business and building a brand for an exit, a lot of founders have strategic goals, right?

And, and aspirations of how to do that. You know, that's a, a unique category. They're doing something different. There's a real point of differentiation. which catches, like I said, the attention of some of the larger players.

Dr. Grant Stevens

Well, speaking of that, HydraFacial. And I know you're involved in that company.

Brent is taking that international, right, using influencers and also leaving the doctor office and going all, I mean, not, not abandoning the doctor office, but it seems expanding into the whole spa. World, not just med Spa. Would you agree?

Lindsay Carlson

Yes, absolutely. Absolutely. It's becoming a household name. Yes, it is.

Everyone knows what a HydraFacial is.

Dr. Grant Stevens

Yes. More or less. I agree. And I've watched that with Clint at the helm and then with Brent purchasing it and so forth and, and moving on. And now we have Andrew running it and Andrew was on the show. And Andrew and, and his background is very aligned with the things you're doing.

Yes. and it'd be interesting to see what their next acquisition is. Any thoughts on that that you can share?

Lindsay Carlson

Probably not, but I know they've been looking at a lot and we've had a lot of conversations and we've shared ideas with them. You know, I think there's a lot of directions they can take it.

Because again, it goes back to that very strong relationship between that aesthetician or whoever's giving that treatment. And the client, who the patient who is, in the chair, right, their ears are open, they're listening to what products they can recommend. I think a product makes a lot of sense. but there's a lot of different ways they could go with that.

Dr. Grant Stevens

I would agree. I think it's gonna be really exciting to watch them as they go. Yes. Now, you advised on Alastin side, advised Atlastin on the Galderma thing, deal. What do you think Galderma's position is in aesthetics? And they, and I know you were advising Alastin, but what do you, what do you see in the future with Galderma? Do you have any comments on that?

Lindsay Carlson

Well, they're, they're the world's largest, derm company. And that gives them a lot of power. There's been a lot of chatter about a potential IPO. Unfortunately, the, the markets aren't conducive for that and, and cooperate on that front, but they will open up again and there will be an opportunity for them to do so.

But, you know, Alastin was a, a great. Big deal for them and and filled a white space opportunity. I think as they look at their existing portfolio, there are a few other white spaces for them. You know, I mentioned hair care. I think that's an area that they could go as well. and I think that they're just evaluating other.

You know, opportunities. They could do another skincare brand on the consumer side where they have more of a presence in a food drug mass channel. And they're unique in that they have both their, their professional side and their consumer side, right? And so they could look to supplement either of those channels and the consumer today, she's bouncing back and forth between both, right?

She's in that professional channel. She's also shopping at Alta, Sephora, Whole Foods, Target and Walmart.

Dr. Grant Stevens

And where is she getting her information? This female consumer that? Yes. Where is she getting most of her information? Nowaday.

Lindsay Carlson

I think she's getting it from everywhere. And you know, with beauty, there's a big element of discovery, right?

And finding brands that really excite and delight her. And so she's perusing, you know, the beauty retailers, Sephora, Alta, she's listening online. I think a lot of these, I say women again, but men too, right? Very engaged with brands, and that's a big theme that we're seeing is brands that are winning today, they have a community.

They have a community of users that are very loyal, that are plugging into social channels, whether it's Instagram of the past, or TikTok, or BeReal, whatever it is. you know, they want to engage. They wanna have a conversation. They're sharing how they're using products today, right. you know, it's a win-win for the brands too because they can pick up and they can do social listening and see, you know, what really excites their consumers.

Dr. Grant Stevens

Some companies are using influencers and yes, stars and so forth. For sure. For sure. What effect is that having on the buying habits of these, these consumers?

Lindsay Carlson

I think it has an opinion. I think it has a big impact, right? People want to learn about new products and if they have a trusted influencer that they follow and really like and feel a connection to.

I think they're more open and willing to try the products that they share and that they put in front of them. You know, you see celebrities, there's a lot of celebrities that have started their own beauty brands. Yes. And they clearly have a big reach too. so you know, that that whole side of, of marketing, of brand awareness, brand building is very powerful and continues to be.

And I think what's interesting, you know, for our. Today is that you've seen doctors and plastic surgeons take that angle. as well, right? Yes. There's a lot of, players that are on TikTok and Instagram and have great followings, and they're reaching a new consumer base by doing so and finding new patients and, and potential long-term clients.

Dr. Grant Stevens

No question. Now, what about different ways of paying for it, specifically, what are your thoughts about subscription services and subscription as it relates to access to the beauty products or beauty services?

Lindsay Carlson

Yes, it's a powerful model. And it's, it's powerful because you retain more often than not, that consumer for a longer period of time. But it's really the data behind it, and you're able to dig into the stats and see how long is that customer? with us. How much is he or she buying? What's the average order size? How frequently are they coming back?

How much time are they spending on our website? Right? are they adding new products to their subscription? Let's say they're, they've got, you know, skincare, a cleanse, or that they get every month or every three months. Are they going back and adding a moisturizer, an eye cream, a neck cream? it's, it's really powerful for the brand standpoint to be able to dig that data.

Dr. Grant Stevens

So you think we're gonna be seeing more subscription based services from different companies?

Lindsay Carlson

I think so, yes. Yeah, it seems like the younger consumers are tapping into that. The convenience aspect of it. Our website's dead. Websites aren't dead, but omnichannel is back in a big way. D2C, everyone was making a big push. You have to be online, digitally native companies. There was a lot of buzz a few years back. They were very, very powerful. and they were, especially during Covid, when everyone was on lockdown and that was your way to, to shop and buy and purchase for yourself and for your family.

But coming out of that, we have seen the importance of retail in a really dramatic way. You have. Everywhere the consumer is today. Right. And they want to be online. They wanna be on their phones and on websites, but they also wanna walk, the aisles in a store and they want to peruse the shelves and discover new brands that way. So it's both.

Dr. Grant Stevens

For, for our listeners, can you describe Omnichannel and D2C? For some that don't know what you're talking about.

Lindsay Carlson

D2C is direct to consumer. So a website and omnichannel is both a brick and. Ex, exposure and presence, as well as having an online presence, and that could be through your own dot.com, your own website, or through Amazon, which has made a big push into beauty.

Dr. Grant Stevens

Some have predicted that we're about to enter a, another recession or extend the one we're in, or what, depending on what your own philosophy. You're a banker, you're a financial person, you're accountant by training, and yet you're in the beauty business. You did allude earlier to the fact that this seems, this business, this segment seems to be, not as affected.

There's the old lipstick story and the depression, and we're all familiar with that. What's gonna happen here? You know, in terms of, let's say we go into a, a greater recession, you mentioned the markets are down right now. what if this extends out? Do we? We have good days and bad days, but, okay.

Long term within the beauty business, the confidence business, if you will. Yes. What effects will the recession if we have on that if you were advising, businesses, startups, whatever. I'd love to hear your thoughts on that.

Lindsay Carlson

Yeah, it's a great question and one that we are asked regularly. I think punchline is the news is been very negative as of late, and I think unrightfully, so right. We've been dealing with new issues. We came out of a pandemic, right? We've gone into geopolitical, noise, economic turmoil, and the consumer's been a little nervous. Right. We've seen inflation, we've seen interest rates rise. Gas prices have been through the roof.

It's starting to moderate a little bit, and I think if you do a double click into the consumer, how is the consumer thinking about things? Consumer sentiment has been up. The consumer has never been stronger. You look at just their amount of wealth. Home prices are up. They have accessibility to debt.

Unemployment is very low. So the consumer overall is in a good spot right now. Okay. You know, should a recession hit, I think the beauty industry is relatively insulated compared to other industries. we're talking about products, we're talking about services. This is a consumer. will trade down in certain areas, potentially who will prolong treatments, right?

If you're talking about aesthetic services. they're not gonna stop. They're just going to move dollars from one basket to another. Right. Your beloved skin care regime, whatever you're using on your hair. You're not gonna change that. That's going to be one of the last things that you're going to change.

And beauty, if you look back through the cycles, has been very recession resistant, and that's what investors love about it. That's why strategics get behind this category in such a big way. It's why they pay big multiples for these brands. because they know there's a stickiness, they know that there's a loyalty and they're somewhat insulated.

There's always gonna be concerns that they're faced with, like supply chain, like, you know, potential cost increase they're gonna need to take. But generally speaking, this is one thing that I just love about this industry. It's protected from that front.

Dr. Grant Stevens

And for the most part it's cash based too, so,

Lindsay Carlson

yes, exactly. That's another program. Exactly. Cash is king. Yeah. So there you go.

Dr. Grant Stevens

Well, that's encouraging for all of us in the beauty business. Yes. Now, I noticed you brought your crystal ball there in your bag. So as you look into it, we've talked about a lot of things in the future and I appreciate that. I, your insights are fantastic.

I don't wanna thank you for them. But what are we gonna see, say three years from now, five years from now? What do you see in, in, if we're on this show three years from now, what, what is the beauty world look like in five years from now? What, yes. What do you think we're gonna be seeing?

Lindsay Carlson

Well, I wish I had a crystal ball.

Dr. Grant Stevens

You have it. I saw you come in with it.

Lindsay Carlson

I think this industry is going to continue to grow. It is gonna continue to evolve. It is a really exciting space right now. There's a lot of buzz about these different categories. And the convergence. Right. I think we're gonna see more and more convergence between beauty, health, technology, those are really big themes, and innovation is just through the charts what companies are doing on the research and development front to bring newness to this category is very exciting. I think we're gonna see more and more investors come into this space and strategic buyers. you have seen folks look at the category from afar, see the growth that it brings, the stickiness, that loyalty we talked about. and they wanna get in on the action. And I think you're gonna see, you know, continued newness from a brand standpoint too.

There's a lot of beauty brands that are popping up, overnight it seems. Mm. and those that have staying power are really poised for success and people wanna get behind them and they, they want to partner with. So I think it's gonna be exciting. So you're very bullish. Yes, very optimistic.

Dr. Grant Stevens

So the category is where I am curious, do you think the percentage of the population, who is getting the, the consuming the product will say whatever that looks like. Do you think that percentage is growing and will continue to grow over time?

Lindsay Carlson

Absolutely you do. Especially as you think about, you know, it's traditionally been a female driven industry. Men are coming into this in a dramatic way. You're seeing a lot of men's brands pop up from a skincare standpoint, for example. that just adds more people into this. And again, we talked about a consumer coming in at a younger age. Sure. So that's a plus as well.

Dr. Grant Stevens

Well, thank you very much. It's been a pleasure having you on the show, and I want to thank you for coming in and sharing your thoughts.

I hope you're right. I think you're right. Also, in the next three to five years, I think we're gonna see a higher percentage, higher absolute numbers, more men and lower average age of the consumer. Yes. Let's have, so more M&A activities, so you'll be doing those deals? And we'll have a safe trip back to Atlanta.

And again, thank you very much for sharing your valuable time with us, and I'd like to thank all of you for joining us today on another episode of The Technology of Beauty, where I have the opportunity to interview the movers and shakers of the beauty business. And as you heard today and saw today, today was no exception.

We'll see you next Tuesday.